Coparent Academy Podcast
Lifechanging Coparenting
Coparent Academy Podcast
#120 - How to Talk So Kids Will Listen
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In this episode, we discuss Joanna Thaber and Julie King's "How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and How to Listen So Kids Will Talk," which teaches how acknowledging and validating your child's emotions can lead to greater cooperation and understanding using strategies like naming emotions, reflective listening, and empathetic responses.
"Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child" by Dr. John Gottman.
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Effective Parenting Through Connection and Empathy
Speaker 1Hey everyone , today we are continuing our conversation about some of the resources available to parents some great books . Last week we talked about Parenting with Love and Logic . Today we're going to start with how to Talk so Kids Will Listen , and how to Listen so Kids Will Talk . There are several books in this series by Joanna Thaber and Julie King , and this is not dissimilar . So I guess that means it's similar to parenting with love and logic , and then it's focusing on avoiding power struggles and doing your best to be empathetic to your kids while giving them safe choices and helping them learn responsibility and autonomy , modeling for them the kind of behavior that you would like to see for them , the kind of behavior that you would like to see . A lot of these materials are for younger kids , but there's also a version how to Talk so Teens Will Listen , and how to Listen so Teens Will Talk , and so I'll include some of that content as well . So in these books there are several concepts , with techniques as well , and so the first concept I want to talk about is acknowledging feelings .
Speaker 1Kids , teens , just like adults , have all sorts of emotions , and we have to have those emotions recognized and validated when people feel like their frustrations are not being recognized or validated . When we feel like our feelings are being dismissed or trivialized , then we feel misunderstood , we may feel alienated , we can get frustrated and that can lead to all sorts of behavior issues I mean not just in kids and adults too . So when you are helping kids by acknowledging their feelings , one of the first things that you can do is to name the emotion . It's easy to tell a child you should be feeling this way , but they're not feeling that way and it's hard for them to just sort of say , okay , I guess I'm feeling the wrong thing . So , instead of telling them how they should feel , try to help them identify the emotion that they're actually experiencing . So here's an example If a child's upset because they can't have a toy , you can say to your child sounds like you're really disappointed because you wanted that toy .
Speaker 1You're not telling the child you shouldn't be upset , disappointed because you wanted that toy . You're not telling the child you shouldn't be upset because you can't have the toy . You're acknowledging and giving a name to the emotion . Next , to acknowledge your feeling , you have to listen to how they're feeling and sometimes that's all it takes . Sometimes a kid just needs to feel heard , and so if you can give your full attention without interrupting your child or trying to fix it immediately , you're listening to them and they can understand that you're listening and that they're being respected . Next , we need to avoid denying their feelings .
Speaker 1It's easy for us as adults who've had a whole lot more life experience , to say it's not a big deal , or you're overreacting , something like that , but that invalidates the kid's experience . There's an expression that worst thing you've ever experienced is the worst thing you've ever experienced . For kids , it can feel like the world is ending if they're not able to have the toy they want or wear the shoes they want or have the food they want , and so instead of saying , oh , that's not really a big deal that you don't get to wear their shoes today , or it's not a big deal that you don't get to have french fries with this meal , you can say something like I see this is really important to you . That doesn't mean you're going to give it to them , you're just acknowledging that they're feeling a certain way . Now , with younger kids , if you can't immediately give the child what they're hoping for and if it's just not appropriate at the time , you can still acknowledge their desire , and acknowledging that desire shows them that they're heard and can help give them some comfort . So here's an example . Now let's say that your child wanted ice cream and they can't have ice cream right now . You say , man , wouldn't it be great if we could have ice cream right now ? Or wouldn't it be great if we could have ice cream after dinner ? You're telling them that you understand what they want and this may not be possible right now , but you get it , that they want it , and it's not crazy that they want it . You kind of maybe want it too . But it's modeling for them that you can't always get what you want . But it's okay to talk about what you want .
Speaker 1For teens we can add some techniques . So one is reflective , listening . So let's say , this routine comes to you with frustration or anger Instead of dismissive . Just reflect it back to them . It's another way of sort of naming the emotion . You can say , for example sounds like you're really upset about how your friends treated you . That's telling them how they should feel . You're reflecting back to them what you're sensing . Again , let them feel seen , heard . You can show empathy , but without overreacting , so you can show them that you understand and empathize with how they're feeling . One way you could do that would be , for example , I can see this is really hard for you . Like you said to your child before , I can see this is really important to you . You're not fixing the problem . You're empathizing with them . And , again , avoid minimizing or dismissing .
Speaker 1The next concept is to encourage cooperation . Now , we all want cooperation from our kids . There's no doubt about it . But kids are more likely to cooperate when they feel respected . We get angry with kids because they won't cooperate with us and we feel disrespected . We need to give them some respect . Show them that we respect them , evolve them in the process .
Speaker 1If you try to command your kid , you know , dictate you will do this now . You can very often wind up with resistance , because that's kind of triggering . I mean , if someone comes to you as an adult and says you will do this right now , your hackles are going to get up too . Do this right now , your hackles are going to get up too . So instead , try to encourage cooperation by maybe giving some choices , explaining the reasons why you're doing something . Make some a request that isn't so commanding and off-putting . So here's some of the ways you can do that .
Speaker 1One way is to help them understand what the situation is by describing what the problem is . So here's an example . Let's say that your kid comes in and just has got mud all over their shoes . So you can say to your child hey , you know , there are muddy shoes on the clean floor . That helps the child understand what the problem is . You didn't start off by saying go clean those shoes or get your muddy shoes off of the clean floor . You're saying oh , there are muddy shoes on the clean floor . Give your kids some information . So remember the kids don't have the same experience you do . It may not occur to them something that is so obvious to you .
Speaker 1So let's say that you get upset with your child for running around with a glass of juice or milk in their hand . This is something that we all do . I mean , I don't know if we all do , I know I do . I'll fill my glass up and I won't get back to my seat before I start drinking it . So I'm kind of a version of drinking and driving that spills sometimes , and so you can say to your child oh , you know that juice spills sometimes if you run with a glass in your hand and that gives a reason why you could have a rule no running with a glass full of juice . You can offer choices . So let's say that you know you're going to have to have dinner , you're going to have to have a bath . Both of those things are going to happen . But instead of saying to your child , you know , eat right now and then you're going to have a bath , you can give your child some autonomy by saying , hey , would you like to have a bath before dinner or after dinner ? That gives your child some control over the situation and they're more likely to be cooperative .
Speaker 1With younger kids especially , you can try to use some humor to lighten up the mood . So , for example , if you're having trouble getting kids to clean up their toys , you can try to use some humor to lighten up the mood . So , for example , if you're having trouble getting kids to clean up their toys , you can make a joke . You know you can say ah , I don't know , can these toys jump back in the box by themselves , or do you think they need help ? You know an older kid will find that to be sarcastic , but a younger kid might find it funny . And then , on top of that , you carry on with that lighthearted mood by turning the cleanup into a game . That's going to be an idea that you see throughout this book if you read it .
Speaker 1The more you can turn something into a game to make something fun , the more cooperation you're going to get . And you may be thinking to yourself I shouldn't have to do that , I shouldn't have to turn something into a game in order for my kid to do what I tell him to do . Fair , maybe you shouldn't have to do that , but it's more helpful . It models more collaboration for your child . It reduces conflict and , although it might take a little bit more time in the beginning , once you get into the habit of doing that , your kid's going to take over some of that . They're going to want to play that game . So give it a shot Now for your teen .
Speaker 1You may want to add in some more collaborative problem solving , like ask them hey , you know , what do you think we can do to fix the situation in the future ? So , like , if your kid is coming home , your teenager is coming home late , instead of yelling at them say coming home late is a problem because of these different reasons , what do you think we can do , like what would be helpful to make sure that you're home on time and remember , just because you are asking for their input , just because you're inviting them to problem solve with you collaboratively , doesn't mean you're stuck with whatever they say . I mean , if you say to your kid man , what do you think we can do to help make sure you're home on time ? And the kid says , we can buy me a lurejet to get home faster , well obviously that's not something you're gonna do . You're not stuck with whatever comes out of their mouth , but you are showing them respect . By inviting them into the conversation , you're modeling cooperation for them
Positive Discipline Techniques for Parents
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1Now this next part really dovetails with parenting with love and logic . Parents can be very quick to punish , especially when our own emotional cup is overflowing , when we've had too much to deal with , when we're too tired , when we feel like the world's crashing on us . Sometimes we allow that to roll on downhill to our kids . But instead of punishment , which can lead to resentment , it can lead to defiance . Instead of that , try to help your child understand the consequences of what their actions aren't and try to get them involved in finding a resolution that's more effective . This really does tie in with parenting and level logic .
Speaker 1So here's some techniques to avoid that kind of strong punishment . You can show that you are disapproving of what they've done without attacking them as a person . So instead of telling your younger child you're a bad boy or a naughty kid or whatever you can say , really am upset when toys are left on the floor because somebody could trip and get hurt . This addresses the issue . You know you have a feeling too and you're allowed to have feelings , and it's okay to model feelings in a healthy way for the children , but you're not attacking their character . You can establish expectations and state them clearly so you can let your child know I expect for you to be home by 6 pm . That sets a clear boundary and then , if a child does mess up , you could show them how they can make it better . So instead of just punishing a child for , like , running with that juice and spilling the juice , you can say oh , you know that juice spilled all over the floor , but it's okay , let's clean it up together and remember that next time when you run with juice , sometimes it'll spill .
Speaker 1You can give a choice again between different options . So let's say with a young child that your child is too loud , like maybe you have another , a younger child , a baby maybe , who's taking a nap . You've got an older child who's playing with their toys and they're playing too loudly and you're afraid they're going to wake up the younger child taking the nap . So you can give an option . You can help them understand that the situation is that the other child is sleeping and that if you're too loud you're going to wake them up . So you can give them an option you can continue playing quietly or we can put the toys away . Now that is giving the child control over that situation and both options are okay with you . And then , especially with the younger child , but an older one as well , sometimes you have to take action . You give them a choice . It doesn't work out . They don't pick the choice . You know they won't cooperate in that process .
Speaker 1Sometimes you might have to say for a younger child playing with toys okay , I'm going to put this toy away until you're ready to use it properly . That's firm , it's enforcing a boundary . The boundary was if you're going to put this toy away until you're ready to use it properly , that's firm , it's enforcing a boundary . The boundary was if you're going to play with the toys , you have to play with it in a way that is appropriate . They've chosen not to play with the toy in an appropriate way . It's not you're saying , okay , I'm going to put this away until you're ready to use it properly . That's enforcing a boundary . It's not punitive boundary . It's not punitive . You're not trying to harm them . You're not trying to punish them . You're enforcing the boundary in a way that is appropriate .
Speaker 1Next is the idea of problem solving no-transcript . So when conflict does happen , kids being involved in the problem-solving process can help them do a few things . It can help them learn some critical thinking . It can help them with some negotiation skills . It can help them maybe understand other people's perspectives and how to work together to find a solution . Here are some ways that you can do that . One again you can identify the problem . You state what the problem is from both your perspective and the child's perspective too . So your child wants to keep playing , but it's dinner time . So you can say , oh , I see what's going on . I see that you want to keep playing , but it's time for dinner . That's identifying what the problem is . Then you can work with your child to come up with solutions . So encourage your child , hey . What do you think we should do ? What can we do so that you can still have some
Building Autonomy Through Communication and Praise
Speaker 1fun .
Speaker 1Before dinner you can evaluate the options that they give you . So once you get a proposal back , you can talk about pros and cons , developmentally , appropriately , obviously , depending on the age of your child . So you know , what do you think would happen if we tried this option . You can have that conversation with your kid and then see if you can come up with a decision that you're both okay with . This is part of that negotiation training . You can maybe agree on a solution that works .
Speaker 1So , with the dinner situation and playing , you could say , for example , how about if we set a timer for 10 more minutes of play time and then we're going to come to dinner ? And of course this is most helpful if you don't wait until the very last second to let them know that dinner time's about ready . So they feel like they're in control to some degree . They feel like you've compromised with them . They get more play time than they thought that they would get , but they're still going to be on time for dinner and everyone has come out with a win-win scenario . And once you've done this , then you can look back and see . You know , how did that work , how did it work with this dinner scenario for me to let them know several minutes in advance that dinner time was almost ready and they're going to have to stop playing , but to negotiate with them to come up with a timer , and when it went off , dinner was going to be served and they were going to eat dinner . Did they respect that ? Did they feel better about it ? Did it lead to more resentment ? Did it lead to more conflict ? So follow up and see how did that work .
Speaker 1Next , it's important to use as much praise and encouragement as you can . Praise is really healthy because if it's used right , you can really build up a kid's self-esteem and their motivation to do well the next time . But really , what it is is you're focusing on the effort that was put in . You're not focusing on an inherent characteristic of a child . You're not focusing on what the result was . You're focusing on their effort . So here's an example Instead of saying , oh , you're a good artist , which is kind of general , be more specific . You can say wow , I really love the way that you use so many bright colors in this drawing . That's something very specific that a child can understand . You're a good artist . This may be harder for a child to understand and it may not be true . You know it may create a sense that is unhealthy for them at some point or unhelpful . They may run into some difficulty with it later . So focusing on a specific moment you actually liked in the work will be a better source of praise for the child than some broad statement that maybe you don't actually think is true .
Speaker 1It's important to focus on effort , not just results . So let's say that your child was working really hard on their math homework and they just could not figure it out . So I'm thinking long division right . So your child's working really hard , can't figure it out , and so instead of saying you didn't get that right , maybe next time you could say , man , you worked really hard to figure out that math problem and then you can go into helping them with getting it correct , but that you're still giving them praise . Your child can get it wrong , but you're still giving them praise if you know they actually put in some decent work , trying for itself praise . So you're modeling praise for a child based on the things that you want them to continue doing , like the effort . So try to help your child reflect on their own successes , their own achievements . So , for example , you could say something like man , you must be really proud of how hard you worked on that math problem . That encourages them to validate themselves , have internal validation . They'll not just be focused on the result , not just focused on their innate ability I'm good at math or I'm not good at math but focus on the effort that they put in .
Speaker 1And then try to avoid comparisons . It may feel like a comparison would make the child feel better and it might in that one situation but then you're encouraging them to look for praise at someone else's expense . Perhaps that may cause them to just become competitive rather than focusing on self-improvement , doing the best they can within themselves . So try to avoid those types of comparisons . Next and here's a big one is fostering autonomy , those types of comparisons . Next and here's a big one is fostering autonomy .
Speaker 1So trying to help a child develop self-reliance , help them develop their own confidence , their ability to make decisions and follow through . To do this , you have to give them opportunities to make choices and to solve problems on their own . Of course , you're going to be guiding them appropriately , but in order for them to develop self-reliance , you have to give them opportunities to rely on themselves . So here's some ways that you can do that . Try to let your child make as many choices as they can . This gives them a sense of control . So , for example and again this is like parenting with a lot of logic you know , do you want to wear this red shirt or the blue shirt today ? Both options are okay with . Both options are appropriate . They pick one .
Speaker 1If you see that your child is struggling with something , don't be a helicopter parent that swoops in and just takes control of it . Let your child struggle some . You can say , for example , I see you're having a really hard time tying your shoes today . I'm here if you need my help . But keep trying . I think you can get it . Encourage them to use resources . Teach them , model for them how to use resources . So let's say your child has a question about what time a store closes or the library closes or whatever they want to go . Do something you can say to them how can we find out what time the library closes or whatever they want to go ? Do something you can say to them how can we find out what time the library closes ? And , depending on the use of devices , it may be that they need to ask you to help them look it up on the internet , which is totally fine .
Speaker 1The next technique is to not rush to answer a child's question . Again , hopefully , you see the pattern it's encouraging them to develop by doing things for themselves . So if you have a child who's asking you a question , encourage them to think about the answer first before you provide the answer . Let's say that you are having an issue with your child taking off their swim trunks and just throwing them on the ground instead of hanging them up to dry or putting them somewhere else that you want them to put them . You could ask them what do you think is going to happen if we just leave these wet swimming trunks on the floor instead of hanging them up and then give them a chance to process that , to think through and come up with an answer .
Speaker 1Next , help kids set goals . See if you can help guide your child in setting goals that are realistic and then help them plan how to achieve them . So let's say that your child has a lot of homework to do and they need to finish that homework . And hopefully they've come to the point where they want to finish that homework . So you can ask them hey , what's your plan for finishing your homework before bedtime ? Give them a chance to think about that . Remember , don't rush to answer . Encourage them to use their resources . There may be some other things that they want to do as well , but they need to make a choice . Giving your child the space to set a goal for themselves and then to come up with a plan on how to achieve that goal is really implementing a lot of the other techniques in this category .
Speaker 1Next , focus on communication . You want to build up cooperation through communication , and the way that you communicate with your kid will either invite them to be cooperative or it may trigger them to be resistant . So try to be positive . Use positive , respectful communication , and that encourages your child to listen and to cooperate more willingly . They're going to reflect back to you the kind of energy that you're bringing to them . So model positivity and respect to them and you're more likely to receive it from that . Here's some ways that you can encourage cooperation through positive , respectful communication .
Speaker 1We said before one way to do that is to use descriptive language . You know , for example , you can say , oh , there's some toys on the floor that don't belong on the floor . You can say that instead of why didn't you clean up your toys ? You can talk about your own feelings without blaming , and so you can use those I words . Instead of saying you're being bad by climbing on the furniture , you can explain the situation to them by saying I get worried when I see you climbing on the furniture because I don't want you to get hurt . You're stating how you feel , which is a legitimate feeling , and it's appropriate to express it without blaming them or putting them down . That's another example of offering information instead of directives . You could say don't climb on that furniture , but again you could say I get worried when I see you climbing on the furniture because I'm afraid you're going to get hurt and I don't want you to be hurt . So that's offering information instead of directives , just like you say to do your feeling without blaming .
Speaker 1And again , for a younger child especially , you can use playfulness . Now , if you turn the kind of routine requests that you have for them into a game , then it makes it more fun and they're more likely to want to participate in it , especially because they're playing a game with their parent , which is often fun . You can say all right , I'm going to set a timer and we're going to see how quickly you can clean up your room . That turns it into a game and it makes your child more likely to want to do it . And then be sure to give your child advance notice . Kids need time to make transitions . So , just like the playing and then dinner example previously , give them that heads up so they have time to make that transition and that time to self-regulate . It takes more time for a child often to self-regulate than it does for an adult , although lots of us adults have problems self-regulating as well . So give them that time .
Speaker 1An important thing to do is to not display anger in a way that is unhelpful . So it's okay if you're frustrated , it's okay if you maybe experience some anger about a situation , but it's important to express it in a way that is constructive and not damaging to your relationship . Anger is natural . We all feel anger . It has to be expressed to your child in a way that doesn't hurt them or damage your relationship with them . So this gets us back to sort of those I statements . You know .
Speaker 1Express your feelings using I instead of blaming your child , saying you so , for example , instead of saying you never help with dinner , which would be a blaming you statement , you can say I'm frustrated that the table isn't set because it delays dinner . So that's expressing your frustration , without blaming or attacking them . You can describe more fully what you feel and why you feel that way . So , for example , if you're frustrated about the table not being set for dinner , you can say I'm frustrated because I've put this time into making dinner . Dinner is ready and now this dish is going to get cool because the table's not set and we need to set the table before we can eat . So now I'm frustrated because I think the food is not going to be as good for everybody as it would have been if the table were ready when the food was ready . And then , as you've explained the situation and why you feel the way you feel , then you can state your expectation . So you can say now , moving forward , or in the future , I expect the table will be set when dinner is ready .
Speaker 1It's okay to set expectations Now . If you really get frustrated and you're having trouble regulating , then it's okay to give yourself a timeout . And if you're too angry to respond calmly , take a break and cool down , and it's okay to model that too . Your child is going to be acutely attuned to your emotional state and probably will recognize , even before you do maybe , that you're getting a little too frustrated . So it's okay to say I need a few minutes to sit down and to think through this , or I need a few minutes to sit down and calm myself down before we talk about this . It's okay to model that as a technique to make sure that you're calm before you speak in a way that is unhelpful to someone , and then , as soon as you have calmed down , it's important to get back together with your child , talk about what happened and what the expectations are for the future and how to avoid that situation in the future . For teenagers , there's some additional techniques that you can use as well . So when you're setting limits and expectations with teens , respect the fact that they need independence with clear boundaries , and that they are individuating that it's part of their job to grow up and individuate from you , to become their own person with their own ways of thinking and doing things , and so to help them with that , there's some additional techniques you know stating your expectations clearly in advance , explaining the reasons behind the boundaries that you're setting , involving them in the rulemaking and then being consistent
Encouraging Responsible Teen Behavior
Speaker 1.
Speaker 1When you're trying to work through your child to encourage positive behaviors , especially your teen , it's really important to avoid sarcasm or criticism . Teenagers especially will pick up or will impose a negativity related to sarcasm or even joking . I mean , even if you say something as a joke to a teenager , the sarcasm can be really hurtful . So just focus on constructive feedback with your teen instead of trying to make a joke about it . That may not land the way that you want .
Speaker 1Encourage your child to be a little more self-reflective . If they had difficulty with a friend , then ask them a question . How did you feel after you had that argument with your friend ? Did it feel like it was something that you would want to do again ? Ask questions to encourage them to think about what they've done . They don't owe you an answer . You just want to ask them questions that'll get them to start thinking , maybe for themselves a little bit .
Speaker 1As you encourage your teenagers to start taking more responsibility , then try to use some of these techniques . And lastly , as your teens get older , you're doing your best to expand their ability to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions . It's really important for them as they're developing into adulthood , which is coming faster and faster and faster . So to do that , it's important to help your child , your teenager , experience the consequences of their actions , like we talked about in Parenting with Love and Logic . Let them face the natural consequences of their actions . You know , if they don't do their homework they're going to get a bad grade . It's not the end of the world . Sometimes it's helpful for your child to experience a bad grade and the consequences from it .
Speaker 1Encourage your child to be involved in some family decisions that are appropriate . Let's say that your teen wants to take an expensive trip . You know , maybe your teenager is a football fan and wants to go see their favorite pro football team , but that may not be in your budget . It's okay to say , hey , I would love to take you to this game . I'm concerned about how expensive it is , and so we need to come up with some ways that we can start saving money so that we can experience that together . You can ask your team what do you think the best way is for us to save some money for the family trip ? Are there some things that we can cut back on ? Are there some ways that we can work together to maybe get some more money ? It's okay to involve them in those kinds of decisions .
Speaker 1Encourage your child to make commitments . Sometimes the hardest thing to do with your teen is to get them out into the world doing something that you actually want them to do . So if you can encourage your child to make a commitment , praise them for it , say I'm really glad you're taking on this part-time job for example , maybe related to affording the football tickets but then say let's talk about how we can balance your part-time job with school , so you're involving them in that decision , about the commitment that you've encouraged them to make , and then help them understand the consequences of their actions . Let's say that you've talked with them about going to this football game , but you're not going to be able to afford it if there's not some additional money coming in and if they don't get good grades , they won't keep their grades up . Then they're not going to be able to experience that . So you can talk about the consequences of those actions . You can say okay , I'm so excited that we're going to go to this football game . Here's what we need to understand In order to do it , we need to raise this additional money and you need to make sure that you're keeping your grades up . If we aren't able to raise that money and if you aren't able to keep your grades up , then we're not going to be able to go to the football game .
Speaker 1So , ultimately , these books the how to talk books are focused on communication . How can we more effectively communicate with our children in an age-appropriate way to encourage them to participate in our homes and our lives in the way that we would like them to ? One of the great things about these books is that there are so many examples in them , like really practical , concrete examples that you can reference . I encourage you to get these books , depending on the age of your child , and to read through them and to consider the examples that they have . The key takeaways are we want to have good communication with our children that is based on mutual respect and empathy and collaboration .
Speaker 1It's very easy for parents and especially , you know , parents of a certain age who grew up in a time when our parents didn't really show us a lot of respect , didn't really seek much collaboration , it's easy for us to think well , wait a second . You know , my parents would never have taken the time to treat me with empathy or to show me this kind of respect , and my child should just do what I tell them to do . But it was unhelpful when our parents did that to us and it would be unhelpful if we did that to our kids . One of the benefits of time passing is that we learn more stuff , and something that we've learned over the last 20 to 30 years , I think , is that it's okay and it's better to be kind , empathetic , respectful to our children , no matter how old they are . Modeling respect and empathy and collaboration and kindness to our children , starting at a very young age , will embed in them the concept that that's how we treat people . The more we can do it on a consistent basis , the more that they will learn that that's the right way
Emotionally Intelligent Child-Rearing
Speaker 1to live .
Speaker 1That's it for today . Thank you for joining me , and next week we're going to get into Raising an Emotionally Intelligent Child by Dr John Gottman . I hope this has been useful to you and I will see you next time . Bye .