Speaker 1: 0:00

Hey everybody, today we are continuing our companion podcast series that goes together with the required four-hour co-parenting education course that we prepared here in Oklahoma, and in today's episode we are going to be focusing on the changing parent-child relationship. That is very broad, and because it's so broad and encompassing, I will let Linda handle this and I will see you guys next week.

Speaker 2: 0:28

That was quite a way to hand it off to me, yep.

Speaker 2: 0:31

Well, it is pretty broad but definite, I'd say, almost every single time.

Speaker 2: 0:38

I can't imagine it not happening in any family system where there's a separation happening in any family system where there's a separation.

Speaker 2: 0:53

One of the main parts of it that, I think, surprises most parents during that process is that the child I mean, I can't even tell you how many times a parent has said but I was closer to this child before the separation who is now wanting to spend all their time at the other house. What is that about? Or, you know, this child was really just attached to me before the separation and now wants to, you know, do everything the other parent's doing. And so many times as we were just recording the section on this for the four-hour course, it really seems to be that the child feels that they need to shore up or cement the relationship with the parent that they're not getting to spend as much time with, or that has moved out of the family home. They feel that there was not enough attachment, maybe there or not as much as with the parent that they're still, at least for now, living with, and so they feel like they really do need to do something about making that connection stronger.

Speaker 1: 2:09

Yeah, and I'm sure that can be hard for the custodial parent to take because they don't know how to think about it. Necessarily it can feel hurtful to them, it can feel like they're not being appreciated and I can imagine that a selfish and not well-informed non-custodial parent, who's on the benefiting side of that increased attention from the child, may try to rub it in their face, not understanding the reasons for it.

Speaker 2: 2:39

Totally. And many times the custodial parent feels like that the child is just going to the other parent's house to get something you know because that parent's buying seem to care as much about me as the other parent does and sometimes that's measured by they don't call or text or anything in between visits or they don't really seem to be as engaged maybe with the child when they're at their home as the other parent does. But you know I get something new to wear every time I go over there or I get a new game to play or you know something like that. And you know adolescents are not going to look the gift horse in the mouth very often.

Speaker 1: 3:33

No, nope, even when the gift horse is a complete jerk with bad teeth.

Speaker 2: 3:37

Oh goodness, I hadn't thought about it like that.

Speaker 1: 3:40

Yeah, kids are smart. Yeah, kids are smart, I mean, and the older they get, the more they're able to play parents off each other, the more that they're going to take advantage of those situations, especially if money's tight at the other house. Those things are definitely going to happen.

Speaker 2: 3:57

And many times the custodial parent with the tight financial situation especially if the non-custodial person isn't paying the child support they're supposed to be will say as they shouldn't. But they will say you know, you need to pick that up with the other person, you know, and if you need a new pair of tennis shoes or whatever, let them get it for you when you're there next time. And so that is kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy in that. Okay, well, they're buying them things because you told them to get it from them.

Speaker 1: 4:29

You know that's true, I hadn't thought about that. The real thing I think the folks need to understand is that just because we perceive a child's apparent shift in relationship, that doesn't mean that the child sees it the same way that we do, because the child necessarily has a different perspective. They're a different person, they're a different age, maybe a different gender, depending on which parent is looking at which child. And it is failure to have proper theory of mind to not be able to consider the situation from the child's perspective and also from the other parent's perspective.

Speaker 2: 5:06

It's a very important fact. I hadn't thought about it like that either. Well, if we're surprising each other, we must be surprising our listeners.

Speaker 1: 5:13

At least one of them.

Speaker 2: 5:14

Oh goodness. And it once again has a lot to do with the developmental stages of the child. You know how they're doing with each one of these situations. But the other thing I find a huge difference with the way the relationship may be pre post separation is if there's suddenly only one adult at each household, or at least one of the households you know, frequently a parent will quickly bring a new partner into that household or be gone a lot with with a new partner. But if it's, if it's just one adult with the child or children, the children will sometimes really actually enjoy that kind of lull in between their parents, finding someone new, and really see it as the time that it was kind of all about the kid. You know they got to really enjoy a lot of one-on-one with the parent. Even if they weren't, you know, running around doing stuff all the time, at least they got to really enjoy the one-on-one.

Speaker 2: 6:20

If there's just one adult in the household, frequently the children are involved in deciding what the next meal will be or you know what they're going to do for the day, whereas if there's another adult in the household and pre-separation, you know, with the two adults in the household, the child might not be consulted or enjoy the role of deciding what meal is going to be fixed. Usually the adults might decide that and let the kid know what's for dinner or the next meal, and so it gives the kids a sense of kind of empowerment that somebody wants to know what they feel like eating, and it gives them a chance to sometimes even experiment with different activities that they do at the different households. You know, used to they only had one bedroom and now they've got somebody going. Hey, how would you, what color would you like your walls in your bedroom? Or you know they're getting a little more control about a lot of things in the new household.

Speaker 1: 7:23

So funny. We're recording this at my house and Rebecca is my wife, if you haven't heard that name before is gone for the weekend and I asked my 18-year-old son, when we were taking a break a few minutes ago, what he wanted for dinner, and I gave him some options and he said honestly, I just want you to pick and tell me so, even at 18 years old, that's interesting.

Speaker 1: 7:47

Yeah, even at 18 years old. Sometimes kids don't want to be asked, they don't want to be put in that position. So just keeping that years old. Sometimes kids don't want to be asked, they don't want to be put in that position. So just keeping that in mind, and also it's interesting that kids, as parents, are changing and the households are changing, kids will sometimes try on at an accelerated rate, different personas.

Speaker 1: 8:07

They will say oh well maybe I can be the handy person because dad's not around anymore. Or, in the case of my, can be the handy person because dad's not around anymore. Or, in the case of my household, it would be because mom's not around, because she's the handy one, she's the one with the workbench and the tools, or, you know, the child may be I'm going to be the protective one, or I'm going to be the one who steps up and takes care of my little brother or sister more than I used to, and they're trying on these different roles and they're seeing their parents trying on different roles and it's really important for the parents not to stifle that but to allow the children to explore the areas that they can safely control and explore, because that gives them an outlet to sort of see who they are in the new situation too.

Speaker 2: 8:51

Many times the child wants to cook, wants to try out something you know, and I frequently recommend that as something that the parent and child can do together. Now you know that if one of the children has expressed an interest in knowing how to cook, then let's really use that as a bonding experience at this time.

Speaker 1: 9:12

Yep, and this is another reason why it's such a big mistake. It's a rookie move to introduce a new romantic partner very quickly after a separation, even if you've been in a loveless marriage for years and now you want to enjoy this new romance that maybe was kind of there before, but just was under the table. It's a mistake, because you don't know who you are yet as a single person, and your children don't know who they are yet in this new dynamic. And this might be one of the best opportunities you've ever had to shore up your relationship with the kids, to be there for them, to understand them better. And introducing a new romantic partner to satisfy needs that you may have at the expense of firming up the foundations of your relationship with your children is just a huge mistake.

Speaker 2: 10:09

I totally agree with that. A huge mistake. I totally agree with that. Many, many times children have told me that their favorite part, if there is one, of a separation or divorce with their parents, is this lull in between a new relationship and the old one, because they really do feel like they were kind of in it together with the parent. You know, and they were, you know, frequently they'll say it was just a small apartment or it was just, you know, whatever as far as the actual residence. But I really liked it because maybe there was a pool there or maybe there was a basketball court or you know something that was really different than the dynamics of the family home together and they really did have a lot of fun one-on-one with the parent. And that disappeared as soon as the new romantic partner came along.

Speaker 1: 11:07

Right, and that disappeared as soon as the new romantic partner came along Right, and then they feel like they've been let down, betrayed, misunderstood, not seen again.

Speaker 2: 11:15

Their territory that they've just established as the person in the kitchen or the person taking care of a younger Sib or something. That territory suddenly has disappeared as well. I had one young lady that told me she and her best friend managed to coordinate their parents' dating.

Speaker 1: 11:36

It's like a weird parent trap.

Speaker 2: 11:38

I know exactly it was. And her father and the best friend's mother got together and it was just a match made in heaven all the way around and the girls were ever so excited. And then, after the parents got married and moved in together wait a minute, everything. Wait. They're supposed to go. You know, the best friend and her mother are supposed to go home at the end of the night, and then I get my dad all to myself and we hang out in the couch and watch a movie and talk and wait a minute. Now the two adults are going into the bedroom, you know, and she was blown away. It's like she never expected that to happen.

Speaker 1: 12:20

Well, and this is a perfect example of why we have to remember that these kids are kids. They do not have the life experience or the brain development to be able to really foresee, anticipate the consequences of their actions. We ascribe to them our anticipation of the results of their actions and it's hard for us to remember that they don't have the same data, nor do they have the same tools that we're working with. So that's a great example to keep that in mind. So just one last thing to leave this with is that you know Linda has said many times on these podcasts in different contexts that you know we parents we get older and our kids do too, but sometimes we fail to acknowledge that they're getting older, like in the drive of our life. They're getting older and we're not just paying attention sometimes, but they are and they're going to leave, hopefully, if you've done your job right, right, eventually.

Speaker 2: 13:24

Right.

Speaker 1: 13:25

If you raise competent adults, they're going to leave, get out of your house and go somewhere else and start making other little humans with other people or person how many people? Maybe I'll back that one out. Oh boy, oh boy. That didn't work out, but hopefully they're going to be raising families of their own and there are going to be a whole lot of life events that you're going to want to be a part of. You're going to want to be at graduations and weddings and all of these things. I mean my kid's 18. I'm already looking forward to being a grandfather in due time.

Speaker 1: 14:01

So you know you're going to want to be a grandparent. You're going to want to do right the things that you feel like you didn't do right the first time. You want to. Really, you're going to want to flex those parenting abilities that you've learned to make that grandkid the happiest kid possible and be a good help to your kid as you're raising them.

Speaker 1: 14:16

If you do not respect the relationship between you and your child, you run the risk of not being part of all those things for the rest of your life that are part of your child's life. So please have some caution in how you approach your parenting and co-parenting in the separation time, because you can't get these days back and you're leaving lasting impressions on your children that seem like fleeting moments to you but are just going to be ingrained in your kids' minds when they think about you as a parent, especially when they become a parent themselves and they compare what they experienced at least their memory of what they experienced to what they themselves are thinking now as parents to what they themselves are thinking now as parents.

Speaker 2: 15:14

And remember, you'll have a lot of adult years after they are totally raised and you'll have time. You know, if you have 50-50 or somewhere close to it, visitation with your children, you'll have plenty of time to do some adult relationship stuff without taking your kids time. But you will never ever have the proximity and availability with your kid that you will have during this time. It's very important that because, as rama's just say, they will grow up and go start their own family and it's really important that you enjoy enjoy every moment of the time that you do have them now where you do get to just be one on one with them.

Speaker 1: 15:58

Yep, all right. Well, everybody, thank you for joining us. See you next time.